Curse

Age · May 31, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

The May tournament is over, and A.Net is free to make another big balance update without any pending events. In the spirit of things, here's my wishlist of most of the really stupid garbage in the game that should go away. I'd like to see a bunch of sane buffs to underused stuff as well, but at this point taking out the garbage that's been festering for nearly a year now takes precedence.

Nothing would make me happier than seeing a list along these lines posted on guildwars.com early next week:

Assassin
*Reduce maximum Shadow Step distance from radar to half radar*
Black Lotus Strike: 10...20 Damage, 3...15 Energy
Shadow Prison: 2...6d

Dervish
Wearying Strike: 5...20 Damage, 5s Weakness, 10r

Elementalist
Searing Flames: 10...85 Damage, 1...7 Burning Duration
Mark of Rodgort: 10...25d
Blurred Vision: 8...14d
Frozen Burst: 12r
Rust: 15...30d, 1c

Mesmer
Panic: 5...20d
Mantra of Persistence: 20...50% longer hex duration
Spirit Shackles: 8...20d, 10r

Monk
Aegis: 20...50% block

Necromancer
*Soul Reaping - Fix it. Best solution so far is "Remove Energy from Minions and Spirits that are not your own"*
Faintheartedness: 33% Slower Attack Speed, 2c, 5...20d
Meekness: 33% Slower Attack Speed, 15...30d, remove health sacrifice
Reckless Haste: 25...70% miss chance, 4...10d, 1c, 20r
Shadow of Fear: 33% Slower Attack Speed, 15...30d
Reaper's Mark: 1...6 Degen, 20d, 10e

Paragon
"Go for the Eyes!": 50...80% Critical Chance, 6A
"Stand Your Ground": 16 Armor
Aggressive Refrain: 5...20d, -10 Armor
Defensive Anthem: 2c
Finale of Restoration: 20r
Purifying Finale: 20r

Ranger
Broad Head Arrow: 4...10d

Ritualist
Spirit Burn: 15...60/5...20 Damage, 5r
Spirit Rift: 2c
Splinter Weapon: 1...4 triggers, 12d
Wielder's Strike: 10...40/10...40 Damage, 5r

Warrior
"Fear Me!": 6A
"Watch Yourself!": 5...20 Armor, 6A
Steady Stance: 10r

That should clear out 90% of the degenerate, braindead garbage that makes me want to not play Guild Wars. Did I miss anything?

Peace,
-CxE

---

Edit Log

Removed 15e from Concussion Shot. That is a sufficiently substantial buff that it warrants discussion on its own.
Added Wielder's Strike, Spirit Burn, and Spirit Rift nerfs, on Nurse's suggestion.

Raised max shadow step distance from earshot to half radar.
Frozen Burst 10r->12r for no more endless looping on its own.
Changed Wielder's Strike and Spirit Burn from spike skills back into pressure skills.
Added Suffering, Rust, Mark of Rodgort duration hits, because AoE hexes are lame.

Added Blurred Vision, Parabond hits. Lowered Weakness duration on Wearying Strike.

Pulled Parabond and Suffering changes...on account of those not being problems if the problem hexes being balanced.
Pulled Concussion Shot from the list, as the changes I'd want to it would be a full rework and a net buff.
Removed energy buff to Mantra of Persistence
Added Reckless Haste hit/rework
Added slight Aggressive Refrain duration hit. I'm afraid of making it bad.

Moved the armor debuff of Paragons onto Aggressive Refrain, on brilliant suggestion by rii.
__________________
Don't argue with idiots. They bring you to their level and beat you with experience.

__________________

Orignally Posted by Ensign in The Gladiator Forum but this is for PvEers to have there say as well.It is your game as well.

Stormlord Alex · May 31, 2007, 11:24 PM // 23:24

For the sake of PvP balance, I'd agree with Ensign.
However, it's interesting to see that monks are untouched - Aegis at the least needs a tap, whether it be spellcasting range or scaling block %. Spellcasting range I'd favour, as it wouldn't hurt the skill too much for PvE, while allowing the opposition some chance of nailing it in PvP

Nah, EDIT: Removed that one. I know there's a lot of people that wouldn't like it.

I'm just hanging on for Ensign to propose some buffs

There's shedloads of skills - a lot of assassin skills to be sure - that ought to be buffed, to promote versatility without breaking the game. Lead Attack love pl0x.

Coloneh · Jun 01, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

"Fear Me" and "Watch Yourself" to 6A?
nooooooo waaaaayyyyyy

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

Like i said in Ensigns actual thread... no way in hell should BHA/Concussion be scaled that much. If they get reduced to 10 seconds they should both be non-elite and cost 10e max for that pathetic amount of dazing. Why Concussion anyway, i haven't seen that 1 in PvP/GvG yet... BHA, live with it, either avoid it, or if you can't, get it removed quickly.

Div · Jun 01, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Why is it that PvE'rs troll the PvP thread and now when a chance is given for them to voice their opinions here, not many respond? PvE'rs unite!

Cebe · Jun 01, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

...Because paragons need to be made more useless in PvE...

Is there actually a point at which ANet would ever think "ok, balancing this class for PvP made this class completely unplayable in PvE, perhaps we should try to fix it for PvE?"...I'm thinking not somehow...just seems like a shame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Why is it that PvE'rs troll the PvP thread and now when a chance is given for the to voice their opinions here, not many respond? PvE'rs unite!

I note, however, that then a PvPer comes to troll a PvE thread no mods ever furiously delete PvP related posts.

Nekretaal · Jun 01, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

I honestly dont think this thread will get a lot of posts because PvE isnt really asking for a bunch of nerfs.

This thread is the troll.

As for Ensign's thread. If some skill has been ok for 2 years, then why is it suddenly not ok now? This skitzo desire for a single "balanced build" to dominate all comers in pvp, but also to be shaken up every three months for fresh gameplay has to stop.

This is totally imbalanced gameplay in a game with hundrsds of skills. Why not let us use all of the skills that are in the game. I'm ok with the fact that.. of all the "power attack" varients only the best one counts... but there are a lot of interesting abilities in this game that are nerfed to crap becuse pvp would prefer to only have one doiminate balanced build at a time.

Giving pvp perfect gear an unlocks was a horrible move for game balance. If pvp had to grind 30 hours just to reroll... then there wouldnt be so many flippant "just remove the necromancer/paragon/ritualist/dervish and restore the game to the meta that it was when we, not Europe, dominated" suggestions in the pvp forum.

leeky baby · Jun 01, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

*ADD*

Shout and Weapon Removal spells to the mesmer line

leeky

yesitsrob · Jun 01, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Paragons are actually very strong in PVE and can compliment a team exceptionally with very strong defensive buffs and a good offense. The problem with Paragons in PVE is the PVE community who are too stupid to realise this. But they by far surpass Sins, Rits, Dervs, and Mesmers for PVE.

Quote:

Giving pvp perfect gear an unlocks was a horrible move for game balance.

Right.

master of cookies · Jun 01, 2007, 04:21 PM // 16:21

Why nerf paragons like that? they are HATED in PvE, personally i think they're great though. If you reduce base armour to 70, dont reduce Stand your ground aswell, Paragons only have one armour buff that increases all armour, and guess what u just asked it to be nerfed. If SYG was nerfed like that, bladeturn refrain should be changed to all physical damage not just slashing then it would have use in PvE.

Why try and nerf wearying strike? because warriors don't stand up to it? why reduce Paragons base armour? because it makes it harder for warriors to get them? some of these things are needed to cope with enemies in PvE.

I can see why from a pvp point of view this might be good but in the other thread it says about how pve players never adapt and just whine but honestly, could pvpers not just get used to increased armour and support from paragons and find ways to get around it or bring a paragon in their own team? we've just been adapting to hard mode and reduced drop rates so why nerf us more? pvp players wouldnt be aware what the last drop rate nerfs did to us.

As for buffs, give paragons a reason to be included in DoA teams.

paragon buffs
-"The Power is yours" change to +2...5 energy regen and -7 degen.
-Song of Power change to until that ally attacks
-Bladeturn Refrain changed to Physical Damage

i'll maybe add more later when i think of them for other profs.

EDIT: added Bladeturn refrain

Vermilion K · Jun 01, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeky baby

*ADD*

Shout and Weapon Removal spells to the mesmer line

leeky

The weapons spells advantage is that they can't be removed. Why ruin it?
As for the Shouts removal, there are Necro hexes that just don't let Shouts happen.
The nerfs are ok except for the Steady Stance imo, 10 energy cost will make it useless.
Also the Wearying Strike nerf is too much, the AoM dervish got weakened enough by nerfing his elite.
Also Concussion Shot nerf, not good imo, 25 energy for 4..10 second dazed IF Concussion Shot hits while target foe is casting a spell? I don't think that is normal. Maybe if you lower the energy cost of Concussion Shot to 15 but reduce dazed duration would make it more fair.
These nerfs will make monking much easier though

yesitsrob · Jun 01, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Weapons have been balanced taking into account they cannot be removed. Making them removable would make a lot of them pretty weak and useless.

I personally think Weapon of Warding could do with adjustment, and definitely splinter weapon - but largely with the weapon spells not being removable has nothing to do with what makes them overpowered. - not that many are anyway - Brutal weapon was awesome for like 2 days at one time... ^^

Xioden · Jun 01, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by master of cookies

Why try and nerf wearying strike? because warriors don't stand up to it? why reduce Paragons base armour? because it makes it harder for warriors to get them? some of these things are needed to cope with enemies in PvE.

Because when combined with Avatar of melandru it becomes better than the [arguably] best axe elite skill (evicerate) hands down, and its not an elite itself.

Quote:

I can see why from a pvp point of view this might be good but in the other thread it says about how pve players never adapt and just whine but honestly, could pvpers not just get used to increased armour and support from paragons and find ways to get around it or bring a paragon in their own team? we've just been adapting to hard mode and reduced drop rates so why nerf us more? pvp players wouldnt be aware what the last drop rate nerfs did to us.

Theres really no way around it unless your running a hex heavy team. The few "Anti-paragon" skills are all hexes (or wells, but in pvp if the other team allows them to be effective for more than 1-2 seconds you probably wouldn't have much trouble with them anyway). Unless you have many hexes flying around, they get removed quickly and won't have much of an effect. So yea, that can potentially be an option.

The other option is to just bring a paragon in their own, but then if the other team adds another then they've got the upper hand again. Before long you end up with paraway vs. paraway. An "If you can't beat them, join them" mentality is a sure sign of a problem.

Quote:

As for buffs, give paragons a reason to be included in DoA teams.

Don't blame the class, blame the players. People run cookie-cutter builds for every other area. For DoA, there are 5 other classes that get the short end of the stick.

hatorihanzoe · Jun 01, 2007, 05:10 PM // 17:10

5 energy for panic...you must insane to make it 5 energy...panic is a really powerful spell, area wide energy denial of 2 pipes...maybe 20 energy but 5 is too much....

and no more energy from minions or spirits huh? why not make soul reap all together reap health instead of energy geez... instead of making popular ones usless and making unpopular ones more useful, lets just leave things as they are now.

master of cookies · Jun 01, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

As for buffs, give paragons a reason to be included in DoA teams.

Don't blame the class, blame the players. People run cookie-cutter builds for every other area. For DoA, there are 5 other classes that get the short end of the stick.

people need to accept paragons yes thats true but giving them some way to get accepted say for example some skill that people want then it will be accepted by most. They're on Fire is a good example of a skill that would be perfect in most 'Balanced' DoA builds as they're called as it'd reduce damage taken by everyone because the foes are all burning due to SF but people wont accept taking a paragon BiP with ToF because they wont have symbiosis and Edge of Extinction, people won't fit these skills in elsewhere, they need a build published on here or wiki before they'll allow it in their team. (this is turning into a DoA rant - I'll stop)

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Why is it that PvE'rs troll the PvP thread and now when a chance is given for them to voice their opinions here, not many respond? PvE'rs unite!

Maybe its because they understand that nobody will read or care whats in here? Do you expect people to care what Ensign has to say about nerfs purely because of PvP in a PvE thread when Ensign won't even read it himself?

Not like it matters anyway, the people who moderate the PvP section deleted half my posts anyway just because they had a small fraction that was about PvE. No edit removing it... just delete the entire post.

Edit By Silly Warrior: Evilsod, clean up your language please on the forums. I cleaned up your post here.

sweat man · Jun 01, 2007, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Spirit Rift: 2c

rift is not overpowered, the range is tiny, just people are to stupid to move, it isnt over-powered.

Evilsod · Jun 01, 2007, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweat man

rift is not overpowered, the range is tiny, just people are to stupid to move, it isnt over-powered.

I think its more the combined power of Rift with Knockdowns/Snares. Rift isn't exactly weak... (see Ritualist Bosses). Unlike the other *after 3 second* skills its not hex, so theres no way of knowing immediately.

Lord Mendes · Jun 01, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

EDIT: nevermind. I confused this with ensign's thread.

clawofcrimson · Jun 01, 2007, 07:57 PM // 19:57

@ Lord mendes removed... sorry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Maybe its because they understand that nobody will read or care whats in here? Do you expect people to care what Ensign has to say about nerfs purely because of PvP in a PvE thread when Ensign won't even read it himself?

Not like it matters anyway, the arrogant twats who moderate the PvP section deleted half my posts anyway just because they had a small fraction that was about PvE. No edit removing it... just delete the entire post. Arrogant twats.

you make a good point... but be careful with your words... name calling directed to someone (especially a mod) is not tolerated ...even here. Some of my posts were deleted as well. And although it may have been nice to post the suggested skill changes where everyone effected can comment, keep in mind that they are just suggestions. Lets just hope Anet hears all sides.